Muslim Student Union aims to educate students on Islam
Noha Ayoub, a sophomore majoring in law, history and culture, was surprised by the student body’s willingness to learn about Islam.
Ayoub helped plan the Muslim Student Union’s 10th annual Islam Awareness Week, which started on Monday and brought renowned keynote speakers such as scholars Dalia Mogahed and Ustadh Usama Canon to campus.
Ayoub, who serves as secretary of the MSU, is extremely passionate about educating others on the religion and said she hopes to create a sense of community and solidarity.
“My hope is to create conversation where there would not have been within the student body in particular,” Ayoub said. “For us, it’s about connecting to our student body, so that other students are aware that we’re here and that we contribute quite a bit to our community on campus.”
The Muslim population at USC has only grown over the past few years, and the USC Office of Religious life estimates that there are up to a 1,000 Muslim students on campus.
This means that the Muslim population makes up 2.3 percent of the student body; these Muslim students being both American-born and from Muslim-majority nations such as Indonesia.
Muslim Student Union President Aamna Asif, a junior majoring in health and human sciences, explained that the week is one of the most important events of the year for the organization, and that the central goal this year is to inform students on how to navigate and comprehend Islam.
“There are a lot of misconceptions about our religion and the events that we’re holding this week are aimed to clear up some of those misconceptions,” Asif said.
Through activities such as dinners with Muslim speakers, mosque sermon visits and calligraphy workshops, Asif hopes to continue developing a stronger Muslim community and to foster a diverse, yet unified identity in the larger USC community.
“I feel like there’s this whole other side to Islam, the actual side of Islam that no one knows about,” Asif said. “We’re trying to get those people that want to learn, that want to be informed, instead of formulating their opinions on what a select few people that don’t know anything about the religion have to say about it.”
In light of the current presidency and political climate, Ayoub explains that she hopes the event will raise support from other students.
“There is a huge population of Muslim students at USC who deserve to be treated with respect. Respect comes from understanding,” wrote Kathleen Sullivan, a sophomore majoring in industrial and systems engineering, in an email to the Daily Trojan. “As a university, it is our job to educate the future citizens of our country and the world. I think the best way to get to the point of understanding is to meet and get to know people so you can put a real face to Islam.”
While the University has vocally supported visa-holding students and those affected by President Donald Trump’s travel ban order, the Muslim Student Union wants to see explicit policy stances from the University.
“We want to know that the University will fight for us in a lot of ways,” Ayoub said. “Without that knowledge, I wouldn’t say we feel unsupported, but we want rather to feel that we are integral members of the community, not just students who can increase the diversity statistic on our pamphlets.”
It seems they don’t want me to give the links to these articles but the interested reader can google the titles for the complete articles. You’ll find many more.
It’s Happening AGAIN: More Syrian Refugees Convert After Seeing Jesus in a Dream
Muslims claim hundreds of thousands are converting in Middle East after ‘Jesus appears in visions and dreams’
It only took 10% of the German people to align with Hitler his Nazi regime to become dominant in Europe for 10+ years. It only abiut 10% of the Japanese to align withHiromi to to wreck havoc in the western Pacific. You see, DT, there’s an old saying that 1 rotten apple spoils the barrel, and when you have even 1% of 1.x billion muslims around the world, that’s a huge number. Don’t underestimate what Benjamin and all of us understand…. radical Islam is evil. Period. It is up to the moderate Islamic commu n ities around the world to stand up and disavow themselves of any association with radical m Islamic terrorism and the groups that promote, else you are part of the problem.
When groups like CAIR, the Islamic commu n ities in NYC, Dearborn MI, London, Paris and other western cities and nations are working very diligently to enact Sharia Law and the law of the land, even the moderates become the enemy. Radicalmislqm, conservative Islam is not aligned with western values, so you need to understand what you really want for yourself and the future of your children. Life under Islamic rule is ot compatible with western civilization. If you want to m live under Islamic rule then move to a country where they do that. I hear Singapore is beautiful this time of year. At least you’ll be safe there .
Assalamualaikum! Peace be upon you.
I want to thank DT for writing this article and supporting us. That kind of open love has been felt profoundly in the MSU and on behalf of the board, thank you.
I also want to thank those of you who are so concerned about the Muslim community that you felt compelled to take time out of your lives that you could use productively to pointing out every flaw in the Muslim community. Our goal with Islam Awareness Week is to shed light on those problems so that we can empower ourselves to address the problems within our own community as well as how we are perceived by others.
The cherry picked lines from the Quran about war is quite relevant to me because those verses were revealed to Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) at a time when Muslims were being persecuted for their beliefs. So these lines were a way to empower Muslims to defend themselves when they were being exiled from their own land by their own people. The Prophet (peace be upon him) was offered money, power, and his choice of women if he would renounce his religion. Instead he preferred poverty and the love of God that liberated him from being tied down to worldly needs. But in the Quran there are a lot of verses about Just war as well. There is more violent rhetoric in the Bible than in the Quran. Which isn’t to say that the Bible is worse, or that Christianity is more violent. Rather we must remember that both these texts were written thousands of years ago, meaning what was relevant then may not be relevant in the same way now.
Furthermore, the Quran teaches us that humans being are different from one another so that we may learn from one another. So the goal of Islam Awareness Week is to continue that tradition of knowledge building. The first line revealed to Muhammad (peace be upon him) was “read.” The angel Gabriel revealed Allah’s message to the Prophet (peace be upon him) and said, “Read in the name of your lord who created you… Read, and your Lord is most Generous, who has taught you with a pen, taught man what he did not know.” The word “iqra” in Arabic, however, means more than just read. It means read, write, recite, memorize, engage. To read in the tradition of the Prophet (peace be upon him) is to have an attitude toward education that welcomes knowledge as an active pursuit.
Within the Muslim community we face a lot of problems. But none of those problems have anything to do with Islam and have more to do with being human. The Institute of Social Justice and Understanding reports that the common factor among Muslim majority countries with violence against women, for example, isn’t Islam but poverty. In the US, domestic violence against women happens in the same ratio as it does in every faith community, including the Muslim community. Furthermore, in the US, Muslim women are the second most educated faith group after Jewish women. That means that Muslim women more educated than Muslim men and Christian men in this country. This statistic is very similar in many Muslim majority countries with a stable economy. In countries like Algeria, women are more educated than men but in Yemen where they face mass starvation, that number is different. But this means that these problems aren’t “Muslim problems.” They are people problems. These are problems of poverty and if you cared about poverty internationally as much as you cared about discussing the problems of Islam itself, then poverty wouldn’t be an issue.
So let me make myself very clear. I do not exist to please you. I do not exist to validate your world view. I don’t owe you any explanations but I choose to because I think the most powerful tool in the world is knowledge. I do not exist as an instrument in your political project. As a Muslim, I believe that my purpose in life is to serve God by serving His people. If you have a problem with my existence, that’s not my problem. That’s yours.
Peace and blessings be upon you.
Everyone should learn more about Islam. I’m sure we can all agree on that point.
What I wish college students knew about Islam:
1. Islam is anti-social justice. Islam justifies slavery, slave rape, the mistreatment of women and the mistreatment of minority sexual and religious groups.
2. Islam is a colonizing religion that destroys indigenous languages and traditions. Islam is an Arabizing religion that favors the Arabic language, customs, dress and habits over indigenous practices.
3. Islam was founded by a polygamist who had sex with a child, beat his wives, kept sex slaves, had poets assassinated and killed 800 men and boys in an orgy of beheading.
College students, do you really want to ally yourselves with the Islamic ideology?
This is nonsense. The Muslim Student Union, as well as organizations like CAIR, need instead to focus on figuring out what it is about their faith that has caused so many to radicalize. That should be their mission. They need to stop rolling out in front of the cameras every time another terrorist act occurs in the name of Allah …sanctimoniously demonizing intelligent and loving Americans for being fearful. Instead they, as a community, need to get to the bottom of this growing threat to world peace and Western civilization.
give me a break. Posts like this do far more to grow the threat to world peace than the tiny minority of idiots who misuse a religion to rationalize their hate ever could. You are increasing the hate and division, exactly like they want you too. Please, stop giving the terrorists what they want.
Your response is predictable, typical, and tiresome. Normal people can see right through it. Everybody knows that the majority of Muslims throughout the world are NOT terrorists. The problem right now is that the majority of international terror is done in the name of Islam, or “Allah”. This is the same phenomenon we see with illegal immigration. The majority of Mexicans and Latinos in America are NOT here illegally. But the problem is that the majority of people here illegally are Latino. This is a demographic reality. The Hispanic community needs to get to the root of their issue just like Muslims need to get to the root of their issue… and all of you need to stop blaming others in the process.
For you to even suggest my comment increases or contribute to “hate and division” is ripe with ignorance. Good Muslims have a problem within their community because too many are going rogue. They need to figure it out… and YOU need to stop demonizing good people around you who have legitimate fear and reserve in the face of this current reality.
There is demonizing in this thread but I ain’t the one doing it.
I am pretty sure no one was calling on all Christians to to do something about their radicalism problem the last time some idiot bombed an abortion clinic or murdered some doctor. Judging and holding every member of group accountable for the action of a tiny minority of idiots is irrational, fear-driven thinking, and contributes to the problem.
All Muslims are somehow responsible for some lunatics who pervert their faith to rationalize their terrible acts? All Latinos are somehow responsible for illegal immigration in the US? Damn man, listen to yourself. This is just as unhinged as some social justice warrior claiming that all white people are responsible for some racist shooting a kid.
“…people around you who have legitimate fear and reserve in the face of this current reality…”
Look, I get it. You are afraid, that’s ok. Wanting to protect you and yours is perfectly natural. But blaming and attacking a billion people who have nothing to do with the things you are afraid of is not going to make you any safer. Sorry you are so fearful, but lashing out and trying to blame everyone around you isn’t going to solve that problem.
I’m growing tired of you. Let’s tackle your nonsense:
Actually I do recall a lot of backlash against Christians every time an abortion clinic was bombed. (I was among them. It’s disgusting that any Christian would think that was appropriate, particularly in the “name of Jesus”.)
Minority? Just so you know, in addition to the vast numbers of Al Quada and Hesbola members, ISIS continues to grow. As I’ve already mentioned, the majority of Muslilms around the world are indeed good people and certainly not terrorists, but don’t kid yourself that rogue terrorist Muslims are just some small unorganized group in the middle east that we don’t need to worry about.
Nobody said that all Muslims are responsible for the rogue ones, or that all Latinos are responsible for the illegal ones. What I did say is that their is a problem within those communities that needs to be addressed.
Unhinged? Barely merits a response.
Afraid? I’m not worried about protecting me and mine. I’m worried about protecting EVERYONE who loves peace and freedom because right now, peace and freedom is threatened by the actions and philosophy of a growing number of rogue Muslims.
Lashing out? Barely merits a response (except to say that a fair and articulate comment to this article, by you or me, is hardly lashing out.
Check yourself (whoever you are).
“I’m worried about protecting EVERYONE who loves peace and freedom
because right now, peace and freedom is threatened by the actions and
philosophy of a growing number of rogue Muslims.”
Fair enough. Accurate threat assessment is important. The last word would more accurately be “terrorists” not “Muslims” — the vast majority of Muslims will tell you that there is nothing Muslim about killing innocents. The Quran is quite clear on this. Learning more about each others’ faiths would go a long way to closing the gap and helping people understand each other so we can stand united against those would pervert either faith for their own gain.
Which, oddly enough, turns out to be what this article is about… the MSU reaching out to allow people to learn about Islam.
That is not “nonsense.” It is one right move, among others, to help make this world a safer place for “everyone who loves peace and freedom.”
I appreciate your viewpoint on this issue. I simply disagree. We are both entitled to our opinions.
The vast majority of Muslims should not be telling me that there is nothing Muslim about killing innocents. That’s my whole point. They should be telling the other Muslims who are committing acts of international terror in the name of Islam, and literally citing “Allah”. They are the ones who apparently need to be schooled on the fundamentals of their faith… not me! So yes, back to the point of this article. You clearly support the notion that somehow the path to ISIS and other terrorist organizations being defeated is for the rest of us to be taught more about Islam…. and I totally disagree. I could become a scholar and even a practitioner of Islam, and it would do NOTHING to stop ISIS and other terrorist organizations that cite Islam and the Quran as their inspiration. The focus is all wrong. The truth is I’m not buying the idea that the Muslim Student Union, or organization like CAIR, really believe it either. What they are really trying to do is shame non-Muslims for being fearful… and I think that’s wrong on so many levels.
Clearly you and I disagree. Disagreement is fine. That’s what these forums are about. I’ve articulated my position pretty clearly and it doesn’t appear that further discussion between us will advance the debate.
fair enough.
Quran (2:191-193) – “And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing… but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun(the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)” (Translation is from the Noble Quran) The verse prior to this (190) refers to “fighting for the cause of Allah those who fight you” leading some to claim that the entire passage refers to a defensive war in which Muslims are defending their homes and families. The historical context of this passage is not defensive warfare, however, since Muhammad and his Muslims had just relocated to Medina and were not under attack by their Meccan adversaries. In fact, the verses urge offensive warfare, in that Muslims are to drive Meccans out of their own city (which they later did). Verse 190 thus means to fight those who offer resistance to Allah’s rule (ie. Muslim conquest). The use of the word “persecution” by some Muslim translators is disingenuous – the actual Arabic words for persecution (idtihad) – and oppression are not used instead of fitna. Fitna can mean disbelief, or the disorder that results from unbelief or temptation. This is certainly what is meant in this context since the violence is explicitly commissioned “until religion is for Allah” – ie. unbelievers desist in their unbelief. [Editor’s note: these notes have been modified slightly after a critic misinterpreted our language. Verse 193 plainly says that ‘fighting’ is sanctioned even if the fitna ‘ceases’. This is about religious order, not real persecution.]
Quran (2:244) – “Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things.”
Quran (2:216) – “Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not.” Not only does this verse establish that violence can be virtuous, but it also contradicts the myth that fighting is intended only in self-defense, since the audience was obviously not under attack at the time. From the Hadith, we know that this verse was narrated at a time that Muhammad was actually trying to motivate his people into raiding merchant caravans for loot.
Quran (3:56) – “As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help.”
Quran (3:151) – “Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority”. This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be ‘joining companions to Allah’).
Quran (4:74) – “Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward.” The martyrs of Islam are unlike the early Christians, who were led meekly to the slaughter. These Muslims are killed in battle as they attempt to inflict death and destruction for the cause of Allah. This is the theological basis for today’s suicide bombers.
Quran (4:76) – “Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…”
Quran (4:89) – “They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks.”
Quran (4:95) – “Not equal are those of the believers who sit (at home), except those who are disabled (by injury or are blind or lame, etc.), and those who strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with their wealth and their lives. Allah has preferred in grades those who strive hard and fight with their wealth and their lives above those who sit (at home).Unto each, Allah has promised good (Paradise), but Allah has preferred those who strive hard and fight, above those who sit (at home) by a huge reward ” This passage criticizes “peaceful” Muslims who do not join in the violence, letting them know that they are less worthy in Allah’s eyes. It also demolishes the modern myth that “Jihad” doesn’t mean holy war in the Quran, but rather a spiritual struggle. Not only is this Arabic word (mujahiduna) used in this passage, but it is clearly not referring to anything spiritual, since the physically disabled are given exemption. (The Hadith reveals the context of the passage to be in response to a blind man’s protest that he is unable to engage in Jihad, which would not make sense if it meant an internal struggle).
Quran (4:104) – “And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain…” Is pursuing an injured and retreating enemy really an act of self-defense?
Quran (5:33) – “The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement”
Quran (8:12) – “I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them” No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle. The targets of violence are “those who disbelieve” – further defined in the next verse (13) as “defy and disobey Allah.” Nothing is said about self-defense. In fact, the verses in sura 8 were narrated shortly after a battle provoked by Muhammad, who had been trying to attack a lightly-armed caravan to steal goods belonging to other people.
Again. Pulling a bunch of lines out of context to rationalize your position isn’t an accurate reflection of the religion. And you chose to completely ignore the point this wall of quotations is ostensibly responding to:
“Accurate threat assessment is important. The last word would more accurately be ‘terrorists’ not ‘Muslims'”
Personally, I think fear-driven decision making and policy is inefficient and counter-productive in most circumstances. But even if… no, especially if… that’s how we are going to respond, then it is essential to identify the threat correctly. The threat is NOT the 1.7 Billion people on the planet who believe Islam’s representation of God, instead of the Christian or Jewish representation of the same God.
The threat IS radicals and terrorists, not Muslims. I don’t know about you, but I would rather fight the people who are actually a threat then waste time or resources focusing on a billion people who aren’t… or worse, creating more enemies in the process.
The words of historian and author Serge Trifkovic describe
Islam perfectly:
“Islam is a collective psychosis seeking to become global, and any attempt to
compromise with such madness is to become part of the madness itself. ”
“I am pretty sure no one was calling on all Christians to to do something about their radicalism problem”
Next time you see a Christian organization beheading people and blowing up buildings, let us know, mmkay?
ok… Army of God. No beheadings that I know of, but does multiple assassinations of doctors count?
And they certainly blew up buildings. What was it, 7 clinic bombings in areas around DC and others in Atlanta and Birmingham. Oh, and the bombing of the lesbian nightclub in Atlanta and the Olympic park bombing.. and of course, they aren’t bombings but you also have the string of independents doing the occasional mass shooting at various Planned Parenthood offices.
oh…. back in 1982? 35 years ago? when crime all across the US was at its peak???????
ONE YEAR? Your pathetic random events PALE in comparison to the frequency of Islamic terrorism. It’s like 1/1000th in scale. And ONE mass shooting at ONE PP office.
‘multiple assassinations of doctors”
– The hostages were later released unharmed after eight days (1982)
– was found guilty of the attempted murder of Dr. George Tiller (key word ATTEMPTED)
Presuming you are not on a mailing list for the newsletter already, go ahead and just google army of god… you really don’t help your argument by downplaying murders and bombings that span a quarter century. You asked for an example, I gave you a whole network.
and for the love of god, did you really just stop at shannon’s attempted murder of Dr. Tiller and not mention that his fellow AOG member Roeder tried again and succeeded in murdering him in 2009. They freaking idolize him for it on their still very active website.
again, you’re missing the point. I DID google them. Their activity is sparse, at best, in comparison. And they generally bombed clinics AFTER hours, not like the recent muzzie attacks in Europe. Tell you what, send me a link to a video of them publicly beheading people for god, and you might have an iota of relativism. Someone also assassinated John Lennon, someone also assassinated MLK, someone also killed JFK.
Here’s a question for you, how many people did Jesus kill compared to how many did Mohammed kill?
Muslims who compare crime committed by people who happen to be nominal members of other religions to religious terror committed explicitly in the name of Islam are comparing apples to oranges.
Yes, some of the abortion clinic bombers were religious, but consider the scope of the problem. There have been six deadly attacks over a 36 year period in the U.S. Eight people died. This is an average of one death every 4.5 years.
By contrast, Islamic terrorists staged nearly ten thousand deadly attacks in just the six years following September 11th, 2001. If one goes back to 1971, when Muslim armies in Bangladesh began the mass slaughter of Hindus, through the years of Jihad in the Sudan, Kashmir and Algeria, and the present-day Sunni-Shia violence in Iraq, the number of innocents killed in the name of Islam probably exceeds five million over this same period.
Muslims who compare crime committed by people who happen to be nominal members of other religions to religious terror committed explicitly in the name of Islam are comparing apples to oranges.
Yes, some of the abortion clinic bombers were religious, but consider the scope of the problem. There have been six deadly attacks over a 36 year period in the U.S. Eight people died. This is an average of one death every 4.5 years.
By contrast, Islamic terrorists staged nearly ten thousand deadly attacks in just the six years following September 11th, 2001. If one goes back to 1971, when Muslim armies in Bangladesh began the mass slaughter of Hindus, through the years of Jihad in the Sudan, Kashmir and Algeria, and the present-day Sunni-Shia violence in Iraq, the number of innocents killed in the name of Islam probably exceeds five million over this same period.
‘increasing hate and division’.. what.. like the muzzie god Mohamallah calling all nonbelievers liars whose hearts are sealed by allah and doomed to an eternity of being placed in fiery clothes with scalding hot water poured on their faces.. as dictated in the Quran???????
you mean like just about every line about hell in the bible? Dear lord man, do you even think about what you are going to type before it spews out?
what line about hell in the bible? making shit up now? because the bible actually doesn’t give much detail about hell, while the quran is laden with details.. hmmm… maybe because satan was the author..
and stop projecting.
oh please. now your not even trying…revelation, matthew, 2 thessalonians, peter, jude
Revelation, of course, has some good stuff on hell and is where we get our lake of burning sulfur image from, but Matthew has some good contributions..blazing furnace, weeping, gashing of teeth and such.
To pull a line from Quran that pretty much describes the same hell referenced in the bible and somehow come to the conclusion that reflects badly on Islam but none of the same stuff in the bible reflects badly on Christianity is just lazy and disingenuous.
All of those verses in the bible simply say eternal fire. Gnashing of teeth, of course, means clenching in pain from the fire. But all of them simply state ‘lake of fire and sulfur’. You’re a halfwit because Islam is ripping OFF the lore, which in turn was ripping off the idea of Hades from mythology – but the Quran goes into much much more gruesome details. Like your pathetic relativism with terrorism, the 20 verses about hell pale in comparison to the 145 verses about hell in the Quran – a book that considerably shorter than the combined bible.
oh. let’s be clear here. there is no relativism with terrorism. Islamic, Christian, state sanctioned killings, random idiots around the world, terrorism is all its forms is evil. Plain and simple. I have not claimed otherwise. Everything I have posted here is about pointing out that your ridiculous hatred of one of the worlds most popular religions is narrow minded, uninformed, senseless and ultimately misplaced.
no, that is relativism, because now you’re conflating that all terrorism is the same. “World’s most popular”. Know who else is popular? Miley Cyrus. Jerry Springer. Frikkin Twilight. Popular is hardly the word I’d use. World’s largest slave count, sure. Not only that, but Mohamallah was a huge terrorist.
logic is hard. But keep trying, there is value in perseverance.
and now you’re circling the drain
oh please, please.. let’s go there. I honestly can’t guess how you are going to connect this to the conversation. This will be fascinating.
So, yes, please explain the crucial difference.
i just did.
yes. but I don’t understand the point. Please explain.
“I honestly can’t guess how you are going to connect this to the conversation.”
>’increasing hate and division’.. what.. like the muzzie god Mohamallah
calling all nonbelievers liars whose hearts are sealed by allah and
doomed to an eternity of being placed in fiery clothes with scalding hot
water poured on their faces.. as dictated in the Quran???????
“you mean like just about every line about hell in the bible?”
“To pull a line from Quran that pretty much describes the same hell
referenced in the bible and somehow come to the conclusion that reflects
badly on Islam but none of the same stuff in the bible reflects badly
on Christianity is just lazy and disingenuous.”
Thus translates to ‘pull a line from a book where one guy is impersonating a god and declaring specific excruciating punishment that he will incur upon nonbelievers’ is the same as ‘pulling a verse from a book of chronicled events written by men and only men’. Now do you see how stupid relativism has made you?
Thank you. You did a fine job of demonstrating your views and the thought process behind them.
I think people can figure out where you are coming from now.
boring conversation anyway https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/6998c1fea12389b9a7f74f6dd3d135ae89e9f85066273b2bbb5141bcec4697c8.gif
Way to represent there buddy. Please keep going, you are making my case perfectly.
your point was that you are Lenny?
The Game:
Most Muslims live peacefully, without harming anyone, so how can Islam be a violent religion?
If Islam were the religion of terrorists then why aren’t most Muslims terrorists?
The Truth:
If we are supposed to make assumptions about an ideology based on the behavior of adherents, then we would have to conclude that Islam is different and dangerous. True, most Muslims are not terrorists, but most terrorists are Muslims. If Islam is a religion of peace then why is it the only one that consistently produces religiously-motivated terrorist attacks each and every day of the year?
Rather than answer a question with a question, let’s just say that the reason most Muslims don’t kill is that, regardless of what Islam may or may not teach, it’s wrong to kill over religion. Most people know deep down that if God wanted people dead for not believing in Muhammad’s version of him, then he’s perfectly capable of doing the job himself.
Here’s a similar question with identical logic to the “If the Quran taught violence then all Muslims would be violent” argument:
“If the Quran taught that a thief’s hand should be cut off, then all Muslims would cut off hands.”
We can all agree that very few Muslims cut off hands and that a majority (perhaps) believe it is wrong to do so. If the logic were sound, then this would be proof that the Quran does not say to cut off hands.
But the Quran does say this… quite clearly:
Cut off the hand of the thief, male or female, as a recompense for that which they committed, a punishment by way of example from Allah. 5:38
This is also the example set by Muhammad according to the Hadith (Bukhari 81:792). Yet, the vast majority of Muslims do not do this.
What this means is that the proof of what Islam teaches or what the Quran says is not in whether the majority of Muslims choose to do it.
As individuals, Muslims make their own choices about which parts of their religion they practice and which parts they would rather dismiss via the guise of “context”.
Adherents may think or say whatever they want to about Islam, it doesn’t change what Islam says about itself. As a documented ideology, Islam exists independently of anyone’s opinion. As such, it may be studied objectively, apart from how anyone practices or chooses to interpret it.
The Quran plainly teaches that it is not only proper to kill in the name of Allah in certain circumstances, but that it is required. Muslims who don’t believe in killing over religion either do not know of Muhammad’s example or prefer a moral law that is independent of it. Those who put Islam first or know Islam best will think and act differently, even if they are in the minority.
Few Muslims have ever read the Quran to any extent, much less pursued an honest investigation of the actual words and deeds of Muhammad (which were more in line with hedonism, deception, power and violence than moral restraint). The harsh rules that Muslim countries impose on free speech to protect Islam from examination also prevent it from being fully understood. In the West, many Muslims, devout or otherwise, simply prefer to believe that Islam is aligned with the Judeo-Christian principles of peace and tolerance, even if it requires filtering evidence to the contrary.
As Taslima Nasreen succinctly puts it, “Islam is a violent ideology. Most Muslims are not violent – because they believe Islam is not violent.”
But, while most Muslims are peaceful in spite of Islam, others are dangerous because of it. It is what the rest of us comfortably refer to as “radicalization” – an ‘affliction’ that is conspicuously endemic to Islam.
Purists who take Islam to heart are more likely to become terrorists than humanitarians. Those most prone to abandoning themselves to Muhammad’s message with no moral filter are always the more dangerous and supremacist-minded. They may be called ‘extremists’ or ‘fundamentalists,’ but, at the end of the day, they are dedicated to the Quran and the path of Jihad as mandated by Muhammad.
“But, while most Muslims are peaceful in spite of Islam, others are dangerous because of it.”
In that wall of text, this is the point your argument comes down to. And, this is the point were we disagree.. I think you are wrong here. The error, in my opinion and experience, is the presumption of causality here.. “because of it.”
Those radicals, extremists.. those evil people… Islam doesn’t cause them to be evil. They are evil and then pervert Islam and cherry pick out of context lines is an attempt to rationalize their hatred and evil actions.
We play into their hands and bolster their position when we use the same out of context justifications for our fear and hatred.
Isaiah wrote about your type thousands of years ago and you and your ilk haven’t changed one bit since then.
+++
Woe to those who call evil good and good evil,
who put darkness for light and light for darkness,
who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.
Isaiah 5:20
did you want to try to respond the point made? Or is your plan to just keep doing exactly what the terrorists do and keep trying to rationalize your misplaced hatred with quotations from a holy book…
and for heaven’s sake, at least pull a line that makes sense in the discussion. We agree terrorists and radicals are evil. The point on the table right now is whether Islam causes them to be evil or if they pervert Islam for their evil ends.
If you want to understand the enemy “Read what they say”.
They constantly justify their acts with accurate and apt citations from the Koran and Hadith.
In our generation, no other religion is so amenable to such “perversion”.
The point you say is on the table, is irrelevant.
Seriously? You think accurately identifying what causes terrorism is irrelevant? This is how they win.
No, I don’t think “Islam causes evil” or “Evil perverts Islam” is a meaningful question for non-Muslims and non-psychiatrists.
Let them explain this to us:
Quran (8:12) – “I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them”
Simple question surely.
Ezekiel 25:17 – And I will execute great vengeance upon them with furious rebukes; and they shall know that I [am] the LORD, when I shall lay my vengeance upon them.
we can do this all day.
Cherry picking out of context quotations from a given holy book isn’t an accurate representation of any religion. Heck, the bible is far more fertile hunting ground for senseless violence than the Quran. The bible’s god consistently jumps straight to full on total war and genocide, killing women, children, prisoners, etc. The Quran specially forbids these things.
Radical extremists on both sides are going to find violence and rationalization for it if that is their goal. If you want to stop those extremists, the way to do it is recognize they are a tiny minority of any religion and for heaven’s sake, stop playing into their hands and giving them more power by lumping in the other 99% of non-radicals into their ranks.
If we were living during the era of the brutal Christian Crusades, then we would be asking the Christian community to get to the root of their radicalization problem. We have to deal with each problem as it comes, and right now there is a very real problem with radical and rogue Muslims. Don’t underestimate the power of the minority in any given context. In fact, there is a principle in science referred to as the “Law of the Minimum” (often reflected as “one bad apple spoiling the whole basket”).
Meanwhile, if you’re going to be an apologist for the Muslim faith… grow a pair, and state your name with your comments.
“Muslims love talking about the Crusades… and Christians love apologizing for them. To hear both parties tell the story, one would think that Muslims were just peacefully minding their own business in lands that were legitimately Muslim, when Christian armies decided to wage holy war and “kill millions.”
The Truth:
Every part of this myth is a lie. By the rules that Muslims claim for themselves, the Crusades were justified, and the excesses (though beneath Christian standards) pale in comparison with the historical treatment of conquered populations at the hands of Muslims.
Here are some quick facts…
The first Crusade began in 1095… 460 years after the first Christian city was overrun by Muslim armies, 457 years after Jerusalem was conquered by Muslim armies, 453 years after Egypt was taken by Muslim armies, 443 after Muslims first plundered Italy, 427 years after Muslim armies first laid siege to the Christian capital of Constantinople, 380 years after Spain was conquered by Muslim armies, 363 years after France was first attacked by Muslim armies, 249 years after the capital of the Christian world, Rome itself, was attacked by a Muslim army, and only after centuries of church burnings, killings, enslavement and forced conversions of Christians.
By the time the Crusades finally began, Muslim armies had conquered two-thirds of the Christian world.
Europe had been harassed by Muslims since the first few years following Muhammad’s death. As early as 652, Muhammad’s followers launched raids on the island of Sicily, waging a full-scale occupation 200 years later that lasted almost a century and was punctuated by massacres, such as that at the town of Castrogiovanni, in which 8,000 Christians were put to death. In 1084, ten years before the first crusade, Muslims staged another devastating Sicilian raid, burning churches in Reggio, enslaving monks and raping an abbey of nuns before carrying them into captivity.
In 1095, Byzantine Emperor, Alexius I Comneus began begging the pope in Rome for help in turning back the Muslim armies which were overrunning what is now Turkey, grabbing property as they went and turning churches into mosques. Several hundred thousand Christians had been killed in Anatolia alone in the decades following 1050 by Seljuk invaders interested in ‘converting’ the survivors to Islam.
Not only were Christians losing their lives in their own lands to the Muslim advance, but pilgrims to the Holy Land from other parts of Europe were being harassed, kidnapped, molested, forcibly converted to Islam and occasionally murdered. (Compare this to the Quran’s justification for slaughter simply on the basis that Muslims were denied access to the Meccan pilgrimage)…”
The Bible’s God? You mean the god of Judaism… that Islam ripped off and relies on? Because all you quoted was OT. The Quran also DOES NOT forbid those things, not by a long shot. I’d really like to see your ‘fertile hunting ground’ in Christianity / NT.
seriously? your response to my claim that cherry picking quotations is inaccurate is to say that it would be accurate if we cherry pick from only certain parts?
it’s not cherry picking you moron, it’s understanding what the hell the two different covenants are
DT we’ve already dealt with this “cherry picking” argument bayou try to make but for those wh can’t be bothered sifting through he old posting I’ll state it again:
There are hundreds of violent verses in the Koran none of which are recanted, qualified or limited in any way. Here’s a taste:
Quran (8:12) – “I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them”
By contrast the violence in the OT is overturned in the NT. e.g.
Matthew 5:38-48New International Version (NIV)
Eye for Eye
38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’[a] 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.
Love for Enemies
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[b] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
You just keep getting taken to the cleaners don’t you!?
I don’t expect you’ll ever give in, my purpose is to expose you and your corrupt ideology … so keep’em coming kid. BTW you are not allowed to read the bible are you? Maybe you shouldn’t be reading this. Did you know that Christianity is about Jesus Christ and he only shows up in the New Testament?
Nah, I’ll give in easy, as soon as you stop just repeating the same illogical nonsense. But you are dangerously close to repeating the same zelotry nonsense, using holy words to rationalize your misplaced hatred, as the terrorists do. I see no reason to encourage such behavior. Peace be with you brother.
Ha ha ha game set and match.
BTW more unsupported hyperbole from you … but of course you have nothing left to do because you can’t answer the arguments placed before you so go ahead name call! But you’re not fooling anybody!
absolutely. you win.. whatever it is you think you’ve won… congratulations!
I made my position perfectly clear, you are welcome to disagree. Clearly I am not going to convince you that denigrating the world’s most popular religion is a bad plan. And certainly, I am not going to be convinced by you that Islam (or any other religion for that matter) is inherently bad, evil, violent, whatever it is you think you are arguing.
Go in peace brother.
I knew someone would post something like this. Here’s the answer: the Old Testament is violent (like the Koran) but Christ superseded the Old Testament with his doctrine given in the Gospels. Find me a violent text in the gospels! You can’t!
What you will find is stuff like this:
Matthew 5:38-48New International Version (NIV)
Eye for Eye
38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’[a] 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.
Love for Enemies
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[b] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
Game, set, match thank you linesmen thank you ball boys.
Mohammad set out similar changes in doctrine as well.
Most major religions have some pretty violent stuff in there, all shifted gears and toned it down later. Including Islam and Christianity. The point, friend, is that if one has an ulterior motive and wishes to pervert a religion to justify heinous acts, it is relatively simple to pull what you need out of context. Those people are not believers and they are not representative of that religion.
Christianity is no different than Islam in that regard.
Now you’ve resorted to bald faced lies. Show me a verse that reads something like ; ” l did say this but now I say do the opposite. ”
You are a liar DT but Allah likes that … remember taqiyya?
You and your murderous religion are exposed!
“There is a huge population of Muslim students at USC who deserve to be treated with respect. Respect comes from understanding” Respect is EARNED, not deserved, just because they follow a warlord’s imaginary god.
““I feel like there’s this whole other side to Islam, the actual side of Islam that no one knows about,”
Well, there’s proof enough that you’re going to get taqqiya… how does he know that ‘side’ if ‘no one knows about’ it?
Well over a billion people on the planet know about it. The YOU don’t bother to make a informed judgment, doesn’t make a billion people wrong… it makes you wrong.
Because you’re an idiot, the point went right over your head. And you successfully debunked the quote I was debunking as well. Apparently, NO ONE knows about it (which includes 1.6 b muzzies)
well, not so much ‘teaching’, but giving their stockholm syndrome muddled version that is safe for the kafir. $20 bucks says they refer to Jesus instead of Issa