Wall provokes discussion and, for some, anger
Many students walking down Trousdale Parkway on Monday paused to view a large wall set up between the Von KleinSmid Center and Taper Hall that read, “Israel: The Politics of Genocide.”
Divided · A student walking down Trousdale Parkway stops to view a separation wall set up by Students for Justice in Palestine on Monday. The wall, which will remain on Trousdale until Tuesday night, was originally built by students from UC Irvine. - Brandon Hui | Daily Trojan
The wall, set up by USC’s Students for Justice in Palestine, caught the eyes of a number of passers-by and drew reactions ranging from appreciation to anger.
The wall was originally built by students from UC Irvine and has since traveled to other campuses. SJP rented the wall, which will stand on USC’s main thoroughfare until Tuesday night.
“It’s a very symbolic gesture to have this wall right in the middle of campus,” said Marwa Katbi, a member of SJP and a junior majoring in creative writing. “It’s very visible.”
Members of SJP said they hope the wall will inform students about the conflict taking place between Israel and Palestine.
“It’s supposed to be a model for the wall that’s currently in the West Bank,” said Shaimaa Abdelhamid, a member of SJP and a junior majoring in history and political science. “Basically, we hope to raise some awareness to the Palestinian side of the conflict in terms of statistics and stories not in the media.”
Several students cast curious glances as they passed the separation wall.
“It’s certainly a strong message, and I think to have it be so in your face — if you’re trying to send a message, what better way than to erect a wall such as one that might exist in the region that they are talking about?” said Daniela Montiel, a graduate student studying public diplomacy who stopped to read information posted on the wall.
Some students said they feel the media portrays Israel in a favorable light and were happy to see another side of the issue presented.
“I’m glad that people are actually presenting the other side of the story,” said Kiah Carr, a freshman majoring in business administration. “People deserve to see [it].”
A number of students who stopped to view the wall said they are interested in learning more about the conflict.
“The message is to pay closer attention to international affairs,” said Max Skeen, a senior majoring in fine art.
Skeen said he wants USC to host lectures on the conflict between Israel and Palestine.
“It would be nice to hear more,” he said.
Dan Shaer, a graduate student studying public health, agreed.
“Everybody should be reminded every once in a while about what’s really going on,” he said. “It’s just sad that this is still going on … All the ways that people are trying to help are not effective.”
For Shaer, the situation is one that hits close to home. He moved to the United States from Lebanon five years ago.
“We’ve been through this too,” he said. “We had a war with Israel in 2006. Most of our country was bombed.”
Though some students thought the wall was a good way to raise awareness, members of ’SC Students for Israel said they were upset that SJP chose to erect the wall the day after Holocaust Remembrance Day.
“It’s a very low blow that this wall is coinciding with the end of Holocaust Remembrance Day,” said Shanel Melamed, the president of ’SC Students for Israel. “It was very disrespectful … There are no words to describe the horrific nature of the timing.”
Melamed, who said she saw the separation wall from afar, said many Jewish students were adversely affected by its presence at USC.
“People were shaking because who they are, their identity, their core was affected,” she said.
SJP members said their goal was to illustrate the problem overseas for the USC community.
“It’s important for people who are offended by this wall to know that there is really a wall of separation in Israel-Palestine,” Katbi said. “That is what they really should be offended about.”
I don’t know why nobody mentions the two-state solution. It seems everyone in the world save Israel, the US, and other countries that wish for US esteem agree to it. While everyone fixates on Hamas or Israel putting down its weapons, no mention is made of how if Israel simply agreed to the two state solution, the conflict would stop. I find Israel’s refusal to compromise and accept a two-state solution that isn’t completely one-sided towards Israel most telling. Of course, one reason for this lack of discussion could be Israel’s adamant refusal to consider the two-state solution, which might simply be assumed to be permanent.
There was a sparsely attended SJP event a few weeks ago about Jews of Arab descent in Israel/Palestine. I think the discussion there, about the endemic discrimination present, is very enlightening pertaining to this discussion. Essentially, Arab Jews there (mizrahi is the common term) must deny all aspects of their Arab heritage and culture to succeed in Israeli society.
As for discussion of democracy/freedom, free elections held by Palestinians have recognized their own governments (some election in the 2000s, can’t quite remember, but all observers agreed it was free; I know one was Jimmy Carter).
As for the anti-Semitism, it is truly unfortunate. While I don’t doubt it’s presence in the Middle East, I’m pretty sure most pro-Palestine supporters in the US don’t object to Jews, but Israel’s actions. I would also venture to guess that a lot of the anti-Semitism in the Middle East is due to an association with Jews as a whole and Zionism, which is grossly untrue. Thus, the distinction between Zionism and Judaism.
To Oh Please:
Thank you!!
But dont forget that its not just Hamas that glorifies death and severely restricts the rights of their own citizens….nearly every Arab country does the same!!!!
Hmmm, should i side with a democratic, free society like Israel? Or should I support the side of the brutal Arab dictators and theocracies that treat their own citizens like dogs??
Easy choice :D
sincerely,
Another supposedly dirty, cruel, racist ZIONIST
Israel is an oppressor? Yet it is one of the few countries in the middle east were an arab is allowed to vote for government.
!עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי
oh please… HANI and the rest of you guys need to pull your head out of the sand and quit reading al jezeera….
ARE YOU AWARE THAT ARABS CAN AND DO HOLD PUBLIC OFFICE IN ISRAEL?
WE’RE not your enemies. go take your problems up with your corrupt government
israel has a right to exist, please just leave us alone
if you go to israel, i promise you’ll have a wonderful time, regardless of your faith. You can enjoy the culture, good food, good night-life, etc. But if you go to gaza, (women) please try walking around with your face showing. you’ll probably get stoned to death!
Call me stupid/ignorant/a zionist, but i think its in the best interest of humanity to support free societies.
yours truly,
a dirty, ignorant, stupid, cruel ZIONIST
p.s., nice showing at our picnic, SJP
you can support and love freedom but also oppose racism and ethnic cleansing.
just as i love america and thus oppose the invasion and occupation of iraq, i can also love israel and the freedom it allows its jewish citizens while opposing its discrimination against its palestinian citizens and its military occupation.
just because a place is nice and has nice clubs, good, etc- does not make its policies right.
and your idea of life in gaza is sort of crazy… having been there personally, i can tell you that women show their face and are an active part of the workforce and education. its confusing to me how your points about freedom in israel, very often correct, are coupled with extremely incorrect assertions about life in arab countries.. why do you shoot yourself in the foot like that?
absolutely LOVE what West said. that’s all that had to be said.
Yes hani, you love oversimplification, emotional incitement, and pure pandering. The truth and an in-depth analysis is too much to handle for you, because it exposes all of the flaws in your argument. Making ridiculous comparisons that no one supports is much easier than really learning what has happened and what is going on.
For those who think that Israel would halt it’s unceasing and multifaceted assault on the people of Palestine if a few militants would only lay down their arms and surrender — you have no concept of the nature of abuse.
Should a woman being raped give up her struggles?
Should we allow greedy companies to deplete the world’s resources until there is nothing left?
Should the indigenous peoples of America have allowed Europeans to slaughter them by the millions?
For those of you deluded enough to believe that Palestine is the oppressor, here is a little test: Which side has more power?
The rapist or the woman?
The multinational companies, or the forests?
The invading Europeans or the Native Americans?
Israel or Palestine?
Israel will not stop persecuting its neighbors just because they surrender. That is not how oppressors operate. An oppressor will invent whatever excuses are required until they get what they want.
Very nice strategy West. Paint Israel as the bigger power and the stronger side, and people will naturally want to side with who is perceived as the group with less power. Paint Israel as a big bad imperialist power, and it becomes popular to dislike it. Too bad none of this stands up to reality. What is it that Israel wants that it “oppresses” the Palestinians? Maybe instead of filling your head with passion and an ‘us vs them’ mentality, you should spend some time considering the other side and the fact that nothing is ever as simple as you want it to be.
Consider this…if Israel had at any point put its weapons down and stopped, it would have been annihilated by Hamas. If Hamas at any point had put its weapons down, there would have been peace. Since 1948, Israel has dealt with attack after attack, war after war. Arab countries around it have tried to destroy Israel numerous times, and the only reason Israel still exists is because it was strong enough to fend them off. Terror groups in Gaza and Lebanon are now trying to do what the Arab countries failed to do in previous conventional wars. Hamas’s charter and foundation is based on destroying Israel and never making peace, no matter the cost or how long it takes. Hamas does not give a damn how many Palestinians die in this cause. Nor do the Arab dictators of the region care what happens to the Palestinians. The goal is to take out Israel, and then maybe care for the Palestinians. Israel deals with these threats every day while at the same time concerning itself with civilian casualties and collateral damage. No other country in the world shows the restraint Israel does when dealing with similar threats to its very existence. If any other country in the world were to have rockets fired at it by a terrorist group sworn to its destruction, there wouldn’t be a second thought before just bombing the entire area to oblivion.
As for your test of who is stronger and who is weaker determining who is morally justified, it is a play on emotions and fear but doesn’t hold true at all. The only reason Israel has survived and exists is because it has managed to maintain a military edge out of necessity, but this wasn’t always the case but thankfully Israel survived the close calls. It is ridiculous to assume that because Israel is conventionally stronger, it is the aggressor and is at fault for the violence. That is basically a false justification for violence in any form anywhere in the world as long as you are the side that is perceived to have less power. It is a terribly simplistic view and I hope you have put more thought into the conflict than this.
Appealing to raw emotions by drawing false analogies and portraying one side as the victim and one side as the evil aggressor works on people only for a very short time until they realize that you are intentionally oversimplifying and misrepresenting reality and decide to seek the truth, something which you seem too one-sided to offer.
what does “put its weapons down and stopped” mean? you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about
thanks D.
and How many rockets has israel shot into gaza? oh right, it’s uncountable, but numbers in the millions.
and how many palestinian dead? oh right, you don’t even care.
stfu Racist filth.
Yet you dont care that Hamas fires rockets from schools and hospitals, and hides in residential building when the retaliation from Israel comes. Hamas intentionally hides behind civilians so that they get killed, and Israel gets bad PR. It is a genius ploy by a group that glorifies death because a)less of them die when Israel must hold back collateral damage and b)if Israel does attack and civilians die, Hamas can claim Israel murdered them.
Remember that if Hamas and the terrorists put down their weapons, we would have peace. If Israel put down its weapons, it would be massacred by Islamic fanatics.
You need to step back from what you have been told to believe with passion and emotion and anger. Think about how many more thousands upon thousands of Arabs and Muslims that are killed by other Arabs and Muslims than by Israel, yet Israel and only israel is despised and attacked on a daily basis. Grow up, get over your childlike emotions of us vs them, and realize what is actually going on here. That way, maybe you can advocate for peace and actually help the Palestinians instead of condemning them to a lifetime of “resistance”
, but yours are baseless claims. Find a single shred of evidence, not produced by the IDF, that Hamas used either schools or hospitals as locations from which to fire rockets. Find a single shred of evidence produced by a respected independent organization that Hamas “intentionally hides behind civilians so that they get killed”. Please, produce this evidence, and then, once you’ve produced this evidence, which will prove rather difficult since it doesn’t exist, ask yourself this question: when the Germans began their bombing of London in the fall of 1940, did we lament that the Churchill gang’s insistence upon hiding in densely populated civilian centers endangered the population of London and forced the Luftwaffe to reluctantly murder civilians? Was that the reaction?
Great analogy. But before we get to that, I hope you know there are copious amounts of evidence that Hamas uses civilians as human shields and intentionally draws casualties as a part of their PR strategy produced by the IDF, independent organizations within Israel, international human rights organizations, and think tank groups. The fact that you do not know or refuse to believe this is very troubling, and I would be more than happy to show you the reports and evidence. Hopefully then you will be willing to understand that the suffering in Gaza is terrible but not at all the fault of Israel as you seem to think it is.
As for your analogy, it is so obviously eroneous that it feels odd to even respond and dissect it, but since you must have had such a hard time thinking of this far fetched point I might as well tell you why its wrong. Israel does not indiscriminantly bomb civilian areas or even non civilian areas. Its bombings are targeted, meticulous, and scarce and aim to pinpoint either fighters who had attacked or are going to attack, or sometimes targetted killings of senior terrorists. Israel does not and has never just bombed and bombed in order to cause damage and kill…. to suggest anything like that is just a lie. Also, was “Churchill’s gang” a group of Islamist terrorists that sent suicide bombers and rockets at a democratic, peace seeking Germany? Israel is neither the aggressor nor does it use even a fraction of the force that ti easily could if its goal was to inflict damage or cause destruction. I can’t even think of one thing about your analogy that matches up with the conflict we are talking about except that there was fighting going on…..
I know its very hard to portray reality so that it fits your agenda, but this isn’t even an intelligent attempt. Come on, you can do better than that right?
If you were capable of producing a report by an independent organization regarding a conflict in the last two decades from which one could reasonably draw the conclusion that “the suffering in Gaza is… not at all the fault of Israel”, then I might take you seriously; however, you’ve clearly never reviewed any of these reports. If you had, what you would have found is that both the international human rights organizations, by which I presume you’re chiefly referring to HRW and Amnesty Intl., and groups within Israel, B’Tselem most prominently, make it quite clear that, while both sides have committed war crimes, Israel is the chief offender, quite literally by orders of magnitude. The most recent foray into Gaza provides a particularly grotesque example of this, where, for example, over 1,000 Palestinian civilians were killed (a conservative estimate) while 3 Israeli civilians were killed. One would be rather hard put to explain these 1,000 or more civilian deaths as the collateral damage resulting from “targeted, meticulous” bombings. Also, regarding this particular conflict, there’s simply no evidence to support the claim that Hamas used schools and hospitals as bases for combat operation, except for a single second party source produced by the IDF. Further examination of all the existing documentation on this event only reinforces my points, though, of course, I encourage you to investigate for yourself.
Regarding your attempt to refine the analogy, virtually every point you make is completely false. Israel does, in fact, indiscriminately bomb civilian areas, as is meticulously documented in the extensive literature on the topic, which you refuse to read. It’s very difficult to explain a civilian to combatant ratio of 4 to 1 as the result of “targeted, meticulous” bombings, a fact that would have occurred to you had you read the reports to which you refer, albeit vaguely. You seem to suggest that, during the second World War, England did not commit any war crimes. Incidentally, carpet-bombing of heavily populated civilian centers is not excused under international law no matter how “undemocratic” the state in question is, contrary to your suggestion. And, most absurdly, you state that “Israel is [not] the aggressor.” Now, it is exactly and precisely because Israel is the aggressor, and has been for decades, that your description and understanding of the situation is completely meaningless. In fact, the most basic principle of international law is the unacceptability of acquiring territory through force, the very definition of aggression, considered the ultimate violation of international law, for obvious reasons, and one which the U.N., excluding of course the U.S.and Israel (and a few tiny island states), has repeatedly and even annually accused Israel of committing, regularly calling on them to immediately withdraw from what are quite appropriately called the occupied territories. Let’s consider another analogy. When Germany invaded Poland, did it have the legitimate right of self defense against Partisan (anti-fascist Polish resistance) terror, which was, incidentally, much worse than any crimes the Palestinians have committed? When Russia commits its crimes in Chechnya, do we call that the legitimate reaction to Chechen terror, again more severe than Palestinian terror? Israel has the right to defend itself in the sense that any military aggressor and occupier has the right to defend itself against the population they’re crushing, namely by immediately withdrawing from the occupied territory.
Since Israel’s disengagement from the Gaza Strip in 2005, as of 2008, over 4000
Kassam rockets have been fired from Gaza into the Western Negev region of Israel.
Each time a Kassam is launched, Israelis have only 15 seconds to seek
shelter. Many of these rockets have been aimed at the town of Sderot,
where between 70% and 94% of children exhibit signs of posttraumatic
stress disorder.
The author should have presented a more balanced article.
Interesting how the media can sometimes report inaccuracies:
UPDATED: (Some) Media Backtrack After “Dead” Palestinian Teen Emerges Alive
April 7, 2010
A Palestinian teen reportedly shot dead by Israeli troops was in fact arrested by police in Egypt after he crossed into that country from Gaza, leaving the news media that reported on the supposed killing with a dilemma: Inform misled readers, or just ignore the new information?
It seems that the word zionist, as used above here, in a hateful and derogatory manner is rather just a codeword for “Jew”.
More specifically, it means “Jew who doesn’t behave”. Liberals LOOOOVE jews, blacks, hispanics, women, etc… as long as they hold “correct” opinions. They can call for the destruction of Israel, and with self-hating Jews on their side, simultaneously convince themselves that they’re not anti-semites. If a Jew should dare suggest he has a right to exist, though, he’s a “zionist” and anything is justifiable to bring him into line. Murdering him and his children included.
haha sooo true. I think they’re so mad that there is a Jewish state that they won’t even say the word and have to replace it with Zionist. That, or its a smokescreen so they can claim not to be the bigoted, prejudiced, hateful group that they are.
Zionist bullying in the united states?! Did you read about that in the protocols of zion?! Even calling the situation in Israel a genocide is a gross missrepresentation that lacks connection with the definition of the word. If this group wants “justice” in “Palestine” they should start by giving an equal and nuanced representation of both sides, instead of attacking one side with argumentation techniques that can best be described as propagande. Justice must mean treating both sides equally, not favoring one side. In light of this I suggest your interest group change its name to “Students for Palestine”, in order to better reflect its agenda.
When I then see people here writing about “zionist bullying” I wonder if what really bothers them are the human rights issues or just the fact that Israel is a jewish state.
Interesting how some comments concentrate on the Palestinians doing the killing. Remember they lived there before Jews from Poland and the US. They were killed and massacred first to make room. Of course, Zionists now must protect themselves from the persecuted. What strange reasoning by the Zionists but when you have the weapons and the strength you can make the rules, right?
Yeah, well the Jews lived in Israel before the Palestinians came there from the arab peninsula. Second, no Palestinians were “massacred” to “make room”, and any serious historian will agree with me. Your representation of the conflict lacks anything that can be compared to an overall understanding of the situation and seems to be a gross simplication á la “The Jews/Zionists stole the palestinians land. Therefore they are evil. Because the jews/zionists are the top dogs (for once in history might I add) they are automatically evil as everyone in power is evil”.
could you please enlighten us to what the “zionists” (I think you mean to say Jews) are, as you imply that Americans will call them by something particular one day?
If you really care about the Palestinians, why are you not demonstrating against the arab countries that hold millions of Palestinians in refugee camps?! (as a way to put pressure on Israel might I add) This is after all a crime against international law, as international law in practice requires that refugees be assimilated into any country that accepts them.
WRONG. Learn some history. Jews have been living in Israel for thousands of years. Just because many immigrated from Europe does not mean that this isn’t true.
Second, what are these widespread killings and massacres you are referring to???? There were a few isolated incidents which were tragic but have been blown waaaaay out of proportion. The Israeli left at the time of Israel’s establishment sought to try and exagerate one such massacre to use it as a PR tool against the standing leaders. The Arabs at the time exagerated it in order to instill fear in Palestinians and get them to move out of the Arabs way as they went to attack Israel.
That is just a snippet of the entire story, but your bogus claims of killings and massacres are terribly wrong.
We should be thankful that Israel has the means to defend itself among a sea of hateful and aggressive neighbors.
You and the white supremacists should have a playdate soon.
I have no symphathy for a zionist who was “shaking”. If they care about human pain and suffering they would shake when they remember how Palestinians were massacred to make room for Zionists. They would shake when they think of how the Palestinians are humiliated every day in Israel. The SJP is a great group and someday, Americans will call the Israelis for what they are, and not be shy because of Zionist bullying techniques here in the US.
WHAT MASSACRES????
The Zionist bullies are here to kill all the Palestinians and rape the world of all its money!! Quick, hide from those dirty dirty Zionists!!!
Congradulations on becoming a fully brainwashed member of the crazies. Too bad there are no rehab facilities for this kind of thing.
Well done Ms. Kyriacou! I applaud a very well-written article on a controversial topic. Since this was an event put on by SJP with minimal SCSI interference, I don’t understand why more SCSI people would have been interviewed? I am happy with the coverage…
SCSI didnt “interfere” out of sheer class. SJP makes me sick.
iloveusc,
“Sheer class”? This is the same sheer class that interrupted a funeral march for last year, right?
Of course you are. Its not often that your convoluted, malicious attacks against Israel get taken seriously by anyone :D
Wow… you people need to seriously reconsider your priorities. The DT is biased… yet we hear little about what was written on the board itself in the real world and mainstream media.
And Joe, I wasn’t sure before, but now I know you’re actually a sarcastic troll.
The Daily Trojan disappoints yet again. This article is horribly one sided, and the author’s bias is clearly visible by the placement of the quote at the end. Christianna, you should be embarrassed by your lack of journalistic integrity. Please understand that there are two sides to this conflict, and giving the other side one quote, taken horribly out of context, and then strategically placing another to counter it, does not present the sides in equal light.
I just graduated from UCI and was hoping to leave this wall behind….guess it’ll follow me to USC too…
This nonsensical bigotry is polluting campuses all over the US….just a couple months ago anti-Israel demonstators yelled and yelled at the Israeli AMBASSADOR who had come to speak at Irvine and silenced him so that he would not even have a chance to speak.
The pro-Palestinian fringe students are terrible examples of academic honesty and integrity. They are a disgraceful bunch of hateful hypocritcs.
We learned after the David Horowitz event that CHRISTIANNA KYRIACOU cannot write unbiased articles about Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Why assign her another article on this topic?
This article is absolutely not what a news piece should be- objective.
5 people were interviewed about their views that SJP’s wall was rightfully erected in order to show the “true” side of the issue. Only 1 person with an opposing or Pro-Israel view was interviewed, when in reality, there are at least hundreds of students on campus who disagree with SJP’s position the issue. Therefore, the article shed a overly biased light on the issue, making it difficult for the Pro-Israel population on campus to dig themselves out of the hole SJP and this article have dug for them.
In order to put the background of this article into perspective, here’s an example that can directly hit the issue home for USC students:
Hamas (a terrorist Palestinian organization) sent rockets for 8 years into civilians cities in Israel without being provoked. Israel did not respond strongly and allowed the rockets to hit homes and civilians for 8 whole years.
– Let’s say people in Orange County were shooting rockets aimed to hit USC dorms every day for 8 years. One day the rocket would hit the intersection between Figueroa and Exposition. The next day it would hit parking lot X, and the day after, it would hit rooms in Birnkrant, Pardee, and New/North, wounding several students. (8 years of this hit or miss panic.) USC would have to declare these areas uninhabitable and the residents would have to evacuate because their safety would be at stake.
Would it be wrong for the USC administration to build a wall in order to stop the rockets from reaching the students? Would it be wrong for USC to protect its students?
Also, much of the oppression in Gaza is due to the Palestinian leaders rather than the Israelis. When Hamas agrees to stop the attacks on Israel, Fatah might not. So it’s a never-ending cycle which directly affects that welfare of the Palestinian people in Gaza.
So a lot of these wrongs could really be resolved by the Palestinian leaders. They just will not agree to work with Israel.
well said.
That is not the same situation as what’s happening over there. To make a better comparison, USC administrators should bring the students to OC and claim half of their county as USC property. Of course any OC residents in the claimed territory must be kicked out and their homes have to be bulldozed.
Your comment here is exactly why there is not peace in the holy land….too many Palestinians have been brainwashed into believing that Israel has no right to the land and just took it away from the poor Palestinians…
Revisionist history is not history at all. Learn the truth about what you speak and then you will realize that this conflict is about Islamic fanatics and power hungry dictators wanting to harm Israel and drive it into the sea. Their supporters have become very good at learning the language of politics and human rights in order to forward this goal.
Israel will never roll over and die. Keep trying.
I have no problem with Isreal building a wall, provided that they erect it on their land/ and not using land siezed in violation of all International Law. The wall in its current location is seen more as a land grab and economic destroyer than it is about border security.
There is no such thing as international law. It’s a fabrication that dictators and liberals use to attack American and Israel. The only real international law is: If you can defend yourself, you will. If not, you’re toast.
Uhhmm…the war in which Israel seized the land in 1967 was fully legal in accordance with international law Ius Cogens (that is there is no legal document describing this rule, but is is held as a rule by the international community) It was anticipatory self-defence, which is allowed in international law. Since Jordan (who did in fact seize the land illegally in a war of agression), from who the land was seized has since given up all claims to it, it is questionable if Israel has any legal obligation to give the land to anyone. In my opinion its hard to give arguments based on legality in accordance with international law because noone here knows enough of international law to challenge it if it is incorrect (Ive only taken one 4 unit class in international law) and therefore it is also intelectually dishonest.
It absolutely is a legal wall, and while it is unfortunate that it must be there, it is the Palestinian terrorists who blew themselves up in cafes and movie theatres who are responsible. If you are mad about the wall, go yell at the mindless murderers who caused it…not the democratic and free society which is just trying to protect itself.
Israel has every right in the world to defend itself. Were America or any other country in the world to be attacked by a terrorist group on its border, it would just flatten the entire area that the terrorists resided in. Israel shows great restraint and humanity, despite the propoganda of the Arabs who want to destroy it.
This wall is another sad reminder of what happens when people allow supernatural and fairy tale religion to drive policies and practice into the real material world. I do not care if you believe in God but when you become overcome with religion and wish to impose your credulous beliefs onto other – then you have the paradise known as the Israeli-Palestine relationship. The conflict between these people stem from a belief in God – that is where they first went wrong.
The conflict is tribal, not religious. You think that if the “Palestinians” started reading Richard Dawkins books and became atheists, they’d suddenly stop wanting to murder the Jews? Why? What is it about atheism that’s so life changing?
I agree Joe, this has nothing to do with religion. No one likes being dispossessed of their ancestral land and no one likes being subjected to a humiliating decades-long military occupation, no matter what religious doctrine, if any, they subscribe to.
Norman Finkelstein is the son of Holocaust survivors. He is not a Holocaust-denier and calling him such is blatantly ignorant. If you had taken time out of your busy schedule to actually attend the event, you would know that he did not speak once about the Holocaust; he spoke about Israel’s invasion of Gaza last year.
However, more importantly, the wall is not about the Holocaust at all. It is about the human rights atrocities that Israel commits against the Palestinian people using the $3 billion they receive in US aid every year. The Wall they are building, that rips apart entire communities, is illegal, their treatment of the Palestinians is illegal, and blaming Palestinians for defending themselves against tanks, this wall, and the Israeli army is ludicrous.
actually, to expect us to take your bombings and not strike back is ludicrous. maybe you should take your head out of the sand and quit relying on al jezeera as a source of information.
Your anger should be directed at your tyrannical leaders, who are responsible for the unfortunate living conditions of gaza, not the israelis.
Don’t forget that these are the same people who danced in the streets in celebration and handed out candy when our country was attacked on 9/11… They hate the USA just as much as they hate Israel and would like to see our beautiful nation whipped off the face of the earth.
They hate freedom, democracy, human rights, and progressive thought. They seek power, death, and fanatisicm. There is a reason martyrdom is so important to these brainwashed fools.
SJP is the same organization that brought a holocaust-denying speaker to campus earlier this semester (daily trojan wrote an article about the incident). They used USG money (from the programing fee in our tuition) to finance the event.
That is an outrage. The SJP should be kicked off campus immedietally for their anti-semtiic agenda.
damn anti-semtiic agenda
The 2 brothers, Issaac & Ishmael are still fighting it out…even to this day.
Their Father Abraham must’ve leaned his lesson: Trust in God for your offspring
(from his wife, Sarah-mother of Issaac) and not in a “washer woman” (Hagar-mother of Ishmael).
Hagar’s son, Ishmael, is illegitimate … & his anger, hate, + ENVY has spread and defined an entire race of people.
How pathetic. They are un-forgiving, relentless, un-productive, contentious, un-compromising and spiteful.
It is said that: ” A Good Tree bears Good Fruit” …
the descendants of Hagar bear ONLY rotten fruit as evidenced by their actions.
Their only defense is to attack their brother & his offspring + make life miserable for the rest of us.
Interesting how folks like Old Domer choose to completely ignore the indiscriminate bombings, targeted shootings, home destructions and general abuse carried out against the Palestinians by the IDF. Would you want to live in peace with your neighbor if that neighbor occupied the greater part of your land, stole portions of it every year and treated you and others as second class citizens? I don’t think so.
I’m not condoning attacks on Israelis or any civilians for that matter. That kind of conduct is immoral when ANYONE commits it. But seriously, when people portray Israel as the innocent little neighbor being attacked by bloodthirsty Arabs, I have to laugh. It would be like the pilgrims protesting after being attacked by the Native Americans, and we all know how the former got things going.
Probably because Old Domer lives in the real world and reads the newspaper, instead of wallowing in anti-semitic web communities and burning US and Israeli flags. When you attempt to murder a nation’s innocent civilians and children, they have the right to shoot back. Even if it results in collateral damage. It’s sad that innocent Palestinians are killed in the fighting (often used as human shields by the terrorists) but the lesson there is, don’t hang out with terrorists if you don’t want to get hit by the crossfire.
When you attempt to murder a nation’s innocent civilians and children, they have the right to shoot back. Even if it results in collateral damage. It’s sad that innocent Israelis are killed in the fighting (often used as human shields by the terrorists) but the lesson there is, don’t hang out with terrorists if you don’t want to get hit by the crossfire.
Switch the actors in your statement, and it makes perfect sense. Seriously, think for just a second.
Come on man, all the actions the IDF takes is in response or preemption to the Islamists of Hamas and others. I am from Iran and I know the idiots and murderers that these fanatic Muslims and their backers are, with their martyrdom ideology that glorifies death and destruction. Hamas is a terrorist organization that kidnaps, kills, maims, destroys, all for its violent cause. We must oppose these fanatics wherever and whenever we see them. In Gaza, in Iran, in Iran, in Lebanon, in Pakistan. EVERYWHER!!
Maybe someone could explain why the Israelis had to build a wall to keep people who like to murder women and children out of the country?
Maybe if the leadership in Gaza and other places would stop launching rockets and sending murderers into peaceful crowds of civilians, then the wall could come down.
The Middle East will have peace on the day that the Palestinian leadership decides to live in peace with the Jews, not until then.
Very well put.
Maybe if the leadership in Israel would stop bombing innocent civilians and blockading entire cities to the point of starvation, and maybe if they would put an end to the longest military occupation in modern history, then the rockets would stop.
The Middle East will have peace on the day that the Israeli leadership decides to live in peace with the Palestinians, not until then.
right…….
I wonder what Lane Kiffin had to say about this.